Internship discrimination in Utrecht: why selecting on gut feeling goes wrong and what does work

In the third live edition of Ongehoorde Verhalen, Omroep AfroNet spoke with Roeselien and Radj Ramcharan about internships, selection and networks. The conversation covered what companies can do, what young people have in their own hands and what it costs to make room.

On 17 October 2026, Omroep AfroNet recorded the third edition of Ongehoorde Verhalen live, with an audience, at TivoliVredenburg in Utrecht. The series consists of live editions of De Tafel van Utrecht about feeling at home, housing and opportunities in the city. This time the topic was internship discrimination. At the table were Roeselien, who works on behaviour change among people who make decisions, and Radj Ramcharan of Stichting Asha, who guides young people without a network. Technology and production were by Muviews.

The starting point comes from the description of the broadcast: two thirds of Utrecht's young people grow up with a migration background, yet higher up in the organisations where they do their internships, you hardly see them. The conversation explored how that happens and what can be done about it. It did not stop at the problem. Both guests kept arriving at concrete steps.

Behaviour among those who decide

Roeselien explained that she focuses on the people who make the decisions and not on the young people. According to her, there is a lot of attention for racism and discrimination, but little changes, because change begins with insight into yourself. Anyone without an objective selection process falls back on what they know, and so often chooses themselves. She said this applies even more when someone with a different skin colour or a different surname walks in.

Her answer is a selection in three rounds. In each round a different, diverse group of people sits at the table, and in the third round the outcomes come together. Roeselien described this as costing energy and going against your gut feeling. She also said that sometimes you have to hire someone together with the discomfort that comes with it, because with someone who doesn't resemble you, you don't immediately know whether you speak the same language. In the conversation, Centraal Museum Utrecht came up as an example of an organisation that works with objective recruitment.

Time also played a role. One of the guests pointed out that supervising an intern takes time, and that time in organisations is money. At the same time, the view held that an intern costs little and brings an organisation knowledge and a fresh perspective. Radj Ramcharan added that he has been guiding interns for twenty years and that in the beginning there was sometimes distrust between school, host company and student.

Bringing people in is not keeping them

A recurring point was the difference between bringing people in and keeping them. According to the guests, anyone who hires a person of colour and thinks the work is done is only just beginning. Inclusion is the start, they said, and it shows in small things. One of them named the canteen as the first stumbling block, because it matters whether people can actually eat something there.

The example of a colleague who never comes to the Christmas drinks also came up. According to the guests, anyone who only hears the reason "I just don't enjoy it that much" has to reach out and connect to understand what is going on. They described an approach in which people from the top and people from the shop floor spend half a year walking in each other's lives. According to the speakers, this was tried at VluchtelingenWerk Nederland and it worked.

The conversation also turned to job titles that nobody understands. Many vacancies sound complicated, often with English names, while the work itself is perfectly doable. Radj Ramcharan described how in Utrecht he proposes group assignments instead of individual internship places, and that the coronavirus pandemic has wiped out a lot. Because of working from home, there are fewer supervisors in the office, and almost nobody wants an intern at home.

What young people can do themselves

Young people also had their share of the conversation. Radj Ramcharan stressed that a good CV, a good letter and a prepared interview remain necessary, even now that AI helps with writing. He gave an example of a question that comes up often: what are you good at and what less so? Roeselien said that young people sometimes give up part of their identity to get in, and she distinguished between being yourself and knowing who you are and being able to tell it.

Radj Ramcharan closed with advice that he himself called surprisingly practical. Do volunteer work, for example at a care institution in your neighbourhood, because that is how you expand your network. And talk to your neighbour, because through him an internship may be closer than you think. Roeselien gave companies an assignment: look at your phone, see who surrounds you and actively look for someone who doesn't fit in there.

A trend, or always like this?

From the audience came the question of whether diversity and inclusion have become a trend by now. Roeselien answered that only intrinsic motivation works. According to her, organisations find it important until it touches their own position, and that is where most of the work lies. One of the guests said it has always been there, but that we have now put a magnifying glass on it.

The hardest point came at the end. Change means that someone has to give up their place, and the question "why is this my problem?" was asked out loud. Roeselien answered that even those in a decisive position miss out on their full potential for as long as talents and perspectives are missing. The conversation ended with a chain question for the next guest, as previous guest Patricia had also asked: what is the common thread in your story?

Background

According to the Utrecht Monitor, 42 percent of the more than 378,000 residents of Utrecht have a migration background. Statistics Netherlands (CBS) reported in 2025 that 1 in 10 graduated students in school-based secondary vocational education (mbo-bol) experience internship discrimination. Among graduates with an origin outside Europe, this was around 22 to 23 percent. According to Movisie, a 2019 study in the municipality of Utrecht showed that vocational students with a name that may point to a migration background had a smaller chance of getting an internship with an identical CV. Movisie also writes that selecting on the basis of a click increases the chance of discrimination. The Stagepact mbo 2023 to 2027 aims to eliminate internship discrimination, but the Dutch cabinet reported in December 2025 that it still occurs often. About its own organisation, DUIC wrote, based on research by Statistics Netherlands, that the share of employees with a migration background at the municipality of Utrecht decreases as the salary scale goes up.

You can watch the full broadcast of Ongehoorde Verhalen #3 on the Omroep AfroNet channel.

Bronnen

• Omroep AfroNet op YouTube: de volledige live-uitzending
• CBS: 1 op de 10 mbo-bol-studenten ervaart discriminatie bij stage
• CBS: Stagediscriminatie onder mbo-studenten, resultaten
• Utrecht Monitor: Bevolking en bestuur
• Movisie: Wat kun je als gemeente doen tegen stagediscriminatie?
• Movisie: Aanpak stagediscriminatie, waar het misgaat en wat beter moet
• Rijksoverheid: Stagepact mbo 2023-2027